toto114114 发表于 2023-8-8 11:48:17

关于16949支持功能的疑问

最近为了总公司支持功能恼火得很,只有上来请教各位大神了!!{:1_101:}{:1_101:}

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NxiCh/AQSfnyk1lieAbsszpoW8BNBsXp4xtWEuYmhlKovgM4GkmqoE0G1V3DSWgQCazQAxsQrMRSK4M4ch+DP0OFaLALrVIk+7qQTQbCq588dhLs4zjK4BwUcj44AGCKDbBoJAF6IIoNkoXFkLYy6y4gyrDMGHcaJUWwTQbVvxoDfHBNDsMaNSJTAXpch66kXwHjjsapYAum02NHRshwCa3QFTYTPmogLk3yYQ/C8RXl+BALq9QpToo00Azdo06j7HXNTlPbeG4BWg0+RpAuj2NEIqqEwAzVYGbjWHubBg1HqK4GuRpp2cBNBtTprUVYMAmq1B2d0G5sLNpehWBF8UL5UXIoBuC4Gl2mIE0GwxtIcVFzEXJqD8w+CMBg6VW6DAmf5yLHovIMmgKh+Px8Q/DFI1ECSyhELFzEVCXzgEAjMBk6g1/rTa1RgrbeYloKkdk1T4g0AKgZLaKaJKzTdaCmCOaYuAln602m2LPr1JIaCpnZIJIoUFx1yHQEntYC6uo4Nueqo1UWu1201gbzxQTe2UTBA3DhlDm6b5dFopEJiLUmSpN5mA1kSt1W4yKA5shoCmdjAXzcjgch0pqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MxeXkcP8Oa03UWu3eP6L3H6GmdkomiPtHru8RltQO5qJvbTU5eq2JWqvdJoNAp6IIaGqnZIKIgkDhyxEoqR3MRRY5vKfXMExjlrpCKhmn1/M5Da9xeocUv1gZrYlaq12d8KDZnNw1tVMyQeRkdL4uNHue4baGktrBXGxZJ70ah8dkgvR4vrIm+3EYptfosg/v6fU07Q2Tc3fSKModNA7PaYjoqNZErdVuOfL7NaPZfTZmz1U0a/paMkH4KdXdi2aPecfqtqR2ujMX79dzej5z/i/GwpgL8z/kWr8Yp2Gp8zn8XaEw48jX1jRN73EasnIRxisf1zhcbxetJK/VrouBvQ3N2jSs52h2hlEyQVi0o56iWQ+uhnRbUjvdmQsT8vf4nt6uBQGPHty7lhWEedViOU2Rp2Lz0eljVh6P6Tm8/q5QzPszn4p5Gy5ZwFi4xCQ9p1dg1VpJXqtdC9buUzS7g6ZzzRoqJRPEDvWgzWjWg6kR3ZbUTpfmwhPy8F3v1/ScVxbilvxDGzheAvwk7Wdoxg5tOHs5MRfhRkgryWu1mx35XoVodo/Mz/braNZ0vGSC+AFT/yWajWAer9uS2sFcRIROir7HYTYWocv8clzw4/cN9Zh8Z1k+BiQ8aQe3n7VgvOC1krxWu1lx71SGZnfAODdfR7Om+yUThBNPpY1oNhZ0vG5LaqcJczFfP7BcX/B4mJWAWKj1ys99fQ7BS/wpPfvyOAKxmJC2Vy/iBa+V5P3tWqfAvlpdrycxb9KHuWZlPoUVeP4nRRwJx6DZWGjX0awZWVSCeL+n8TXM153NmhUtL9p1X0Aey+98eTSbwjBet1HaiexSA+bCMWkfJdXIQeYp/p6vIC+2WiGd/K5ahFyjIOzaWL14j6Pjdtx4wfuTvIDK/+hvV8bxYyhkcv59zHznUNpo0ewRt6tr1owvLEF8tLAxFL+aldeFPzz5Y4Jm/Xw+e3PpNkw7IT36W0bfXFgXLq7CD0msfweTd8s4vb7fI/G5v7qGq5drLYJXI4SfsiEzS5hz/MztsZtASFL+3b4ptHnhT/Kbollf+NuVcRhz8ZxexkjZ/69hGsztwTJBm8fqMUGzMYK4g2bNeI8ThLkT7Eeb5kLx5zANw+f/+Wd/+Ps1hvnfsmj2LxP/lpy6PdaOvy++vermQpLp42FE/vxOzsHJ1Te6U/uWZDLfnpn3+yt2uyWrFlGfemX1wn99hrvN5VPC6VtQfyaujcGQpBw+WfmTvHskObb625VxmLHuj+X7xp9NRm2TjGbDbzO/h2aN7v0JYp0fPsbXdwH6csqkqnZ70KyJUptzrV8752ZVZXNhTdjmU54kVyPuqAR7DoL76O2bsrzZkfYSEtKX237Sc4/RbP3cflruKgGJcXjf/El+fyRn9/jblXH4zYXpw2qYH1N53dijFg19Emf5tqU9NOvXjh2j/M99CeJ7/VaUYXhbq7b5+7utUTR0d82aUbc31/q0s41T/CtdcyFL6Q/51G0LLWHCih+/54i1L0OF2z1lEkhNCHK8vin7RSpJuR9z8Y2FWXquoJ2VOJpdWZx5dh3NmlHuJwgZR63EncIczaZQcx8j8Q6fa/e1424hZququVg/4a0w9CbmX2yW6LcXEfwW3Lw2y+LP2FUXMVnec/RmyfLvN3Wuja/9bctgxAte61Ogv10Zx/HKhZ6GVw14pbSKZn6GZn+ATBLrdV76LfH72q+d39J5X+8lCFuHvlN5eXsTWxuajSW2Xz5et3va2W8jfI+iuRAQPxe+fZf4tU+NxIt+c7491GDIeI/Kf8v5fk/EYpr0uyORF67OffKdwzVClD61P1H7E4SM48hcrLoxb9yYJB/+tt0rubYd2i6adbGUWLevWdN7d4JYtWD2111BczHd27b2sx/NGhZtzLVu7ezFKm67mrmwXfVWVKvYTk/OJ7/D3bT/+ZffyfA9Slnr8cgwSOI9LGcuR1kvdp0/hexdJCEmZDnHGvfLqRb7kIs8v3x8k9d1Juoc5mITp4C4/nm7otnIX/vtW7NGP+4EIe+7z3y0nWP/qO7cBjQbqVmDuw3durVzTg5ytJK5sMA6rrzfTNBn3xXvcRrN97jLiIMf1z6e7YK7yaX+oARkTRSOHzH7U//yDaK2OQo1GXKqKmjM39M5vrtppO/tfwoMNxeuW1Ff29v9NnfM/ImQfwOanW/3RbN+mcheZ4L4+ZBR/NIfNBulWRO7FuZap3ZEWCcfdcyFLXxXFrP3O8zHyTEHHl7SXHzqDv1CrtVshSfozZ0384+f7f18+xZHmuB9F6Xc0VxYq1PW6o1t5mp8J8o2cuYVmv3L5GfL1xDfQ7NmdM4EIeOc9Rkxb/zgKv+yT80ari3MtU7tZAq6irlYk+XeOelVcGbwLv+RafyeatY+5G3f1Ht0nYLdLUnOCRyMSXvG3XXTguD9Kwg2m7zP/e2ucVhNxIHJOLN6kTQ0NHuITZKu900tsQ5Pyn7tHPbqVAFngpBxdmsu2p5nTcBbmGud2jmlxvVgBXOxToC+K5htA1L/mw4NoLWf3nloZRn2bP6p3bCippQIsBYDaS9ozDKBeQtfZ6L2JwgZhzEUO0lHfrfBXs0IOu0Vrgd/STTr5zO/oT7XUd1Es2a8zgQh781ezUXj86yJWwtzrVM7h2+isAL1zYV9ysP3BrfL7U3mYWNMLFVooo7pjUwQFRNUC4L3J/kYgHFl/e0GmAtpbqNd38WuckCuRzR7SFLeU765Ry60jph3/No57NWpAs4EsdHgjhk+1Wqug/vUrKHXwlzr1E6m0FY3FwLUDGr+BUn79xk2z7cXyNW/lUpb9JLM4k5rnNWFxMc790ojN5uo/QlC4uFZuRAuZt3LvrunmjlEs1YI3E9vplkzSGeC2JiLunOIG/ze1j41a2i0MNc6tbMXqsjtlc2FPUEfnK+2l5bN82oTtBDUFb0Ib99Umf7FXLsh4/I/SruYi19OtnYDPgluJveA8r/NJb1Gs4fYejEX39WXzzy7P48cEitcoE/NGqgtzLX3MRfyxv41DkGva7tvRdELp8MM/0l4OScOEbz55c/DH4GSuHn7KUk5PMH6VxDKzXX+dmUcYSsX27t1wsd+bnRotjfNGr3sJYj1vazx4SxUyX1q1tBZ46M31+5pJzR6vnJVVy5WmKF3PqzCMxByJlEflM++tW1v7jyuKLLEksRCV2qWT8jmttYcfxKjoOqCTJAk5fAE60/yOUbprsPfrowj0FwIm6qrbmjWHVlrq8TFK3CJdfuaNSPbTRAy1uVDgHfIFqK6T/vUrGHcwly7q50MIqhoLuQNGzg5L4PTOXdtGtcQvbQZPqnNPZXz+yFfsHUgmiTBe42QxD18TP4kfzCAE7v97co4wvQrHM2bt9adPmg2IPiScG+iWTPi/QQh84nR7KLboG8TNL9j9JryfFw5isnax3rmR9oMn5PMKL65KMM8a+qTOSJo3IV0u6+do7gd769nLgRO9GRrT+o1T42IAENXWY5hH5X4iC1ljGtfzyWypZ7Q3yWZv5XvcFTTIBPbUdFlvz/JB1aSUMzfrq1D/6S0+b2Oqt/TsuogaMJKYPR7CJr9EPFr55da3tfeBLG59scYDN91Wu9p/hG7+f2aMg+ljKtHzRpObcy1Xu2khNM6ppq5EJdmBhM78dnHnkue1sgPn9YV/ccVn3hDW5PImdNH76BPNofwrAKSlP0J2Tpg0pqo/e3KOD4T9GtzZ9M4jeb1a9h+BfjNT+Wh2VW1fu2s5Uo8O0wQf34O4LOS8XwO0zB8/s21Kqae9f/EXBQ1yD7nWYOohbn2UDtRsdwWrmMurMS3+wVE235tX9mrHhH3nm8riX1VSfRv8+t45o29fKKYv/zlPb0DH+ektiS64SmTQ62JIYSpJOU7mQvh7Ht8TkPxH3T45Y9mf4mkvb6OZs34ghLEe3tr/2oiHBo23+o7Zv+UsRMKNLsDJmFzvG6DtJPQE3NIHXNhmYO0Cw8Fmnkj1Eqca5uxKy0xsdisymw+OTje9MtypVwRL586BnN+dPnk/JQ6SnbaOcBxGuST0Gv5JD+O02uQcVzdXKyToG9iNrEJ/cEtJ8ZTG9FsHL7ra9aMNyZBvN/mPWnuTpD35fJofgV5eM0/8hjH8GxpNBtPMJ9uY7QT28865iK2V1XLy8qB9SYzbzRJ0qXNzGZV5zHJUqUsu8sKRhgSOwGGJ/OwukNKmXO2O5+QIsyO1hKzVrshZLdl0OyWx5lX19asGXnJBHGG7PZYNLvlcfZVHt2W1A7m4htjc4X0YJkKcfblk7RpN9cy5PeKZu/V8N9BF3tiTEaqQdNK8lrtpgcBzaaz+3vkFTVrRlEyQfyldHYLmj1L8Pf4M7otqR3Mxd9ILXc3GHNR6xTMbyfOvDZLZo3021xIFnrniTVkrSSv1a419LSn73VpGc2mIfwedTHNmn6XTBBfLrmfoNm8RBN1W1I7mAtHiN9mBWM+/+jYyabiBLSSvFa7OYCi2RwU0+vQ1E7JBJFO5PhINHvMqHSJktrBXJSOHvVHE9CaqLXajQbEAc0R0NROyQTRHGg6lJVASe1gLrKGispyENCaqLXazcGMOnQJaGqnZILQpUrrpQmU1A7monT0qD+agNZErdVuNCAOaI6ApnZKJojmQNOhrARKagdzkTVUVJaDgNZErdVuDmbUoUtAUzslE4QuVVovTaCkdjAXpaNH/dEEtCZqrXajAXFAcwQ0tVMyQTQHmg5lJVBSO5iLrKGishwEtCZqrXZzMKMOXQKa2imZIHSp0nppAiW1g7koHT3qjyagNVFrtRsNiAOaI6CpnZIJojnQdCgrgZLawVxkDRWV5SCgNVFrtZuDGXXoEtDUTskEoUuV1ksTKKkdzEXp6FF/NAGtiVqr3WhAHNAcAU3tlEwQzVkeSBkAAAL+SURBVIGmQ1kJlNQO5iJrqKgsBwGtiVqr3RzMqEOXgKZ2SiYIXaq0XppASe1gLkpHj/qjCWhN1FrtRgPigOYIaGqnZIJoDjQdykqgpHYwF1lDRWU5CGhN1Frt5mBGHboENLVTMkHoUqX10gRKagdzUTp61B9NQGui1mo3GhAHNEdAUzslE0RzoOlQVgIltYO5yBoqKstBQGui1mo3BzPq0CWgqZ2SCUKXKq2XJlBSO5iL0tGj/mgCWhO1VrvRgDigOQKa2imZIJoDTYeyEiipHcxF1lBRWQ4CWhO1Vrs5mFGHLgFN7ZRMELpUab00gZLawVyUjh71RxPQmqi12o0GxAHNEdDUTskE0RxoOpSVQEntYC6yhorKchDQmqi12s3BjDp0CWhqp2SC0KVK66UJlNQO5qJ09Kg/moDWRK3VbjQgDmiOgKZ2SiaI5kDToawESmoHc5E1VFSWg4DWRK3Vbg5m1KFLQFM7JROELlVaL02gpHaKmQvzZuMfBqkaKP2mctWf2leOQ+dGA1p/JkHwD4NUDZTSbRFzUaqz1AsBCEAAAhCAQPsEMBftx4geQgACEIAABC5FAHNxqXDRWQhAAAIQgED7BDAX7ceIHkIAAhCAAAQuRQBzcalw0VkIQAACEIBA+wQwF+3HiB5CAAIQgAAELkUAc3GpcNFZCEAAAhCAQPsEMBftx4geQgACEIAABC5FAHNxqXDRWQhAAAIQgED7BDAX7ceIHkIAAhCAAAQuRQBzcalw0VkIQAACEIBA+wQwF+3HiB5CAAIQgAAELkUAc3GpcNFZCEAAAhCAQPsEMBftx4geQgACEIAABC5FAHNxqXDRWQhAAAIQgED7BDAX7ceIHkIAAhCAAAQuRQBzcalw0VkIQAACEIBA+wQwF+3HiB5CAAIQgAAELkUAc3GpcNFZCEAAAhCAQPsEMBftx4geQgACEIAABC5FAHNxqXDRWQhAAAIQgED7BDAX7ceIHkIAAhCAAAQuRQBzcalw0VkIQAACEIBA+wT+AwqOywh6Ms7LAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC
背景:上图是大概的组织架构,我们属于集团公司,本公司属于子公司(但是独立核算,不同的法人)。公司主要生产的是电子产品,属于主机厂的二级供应商,产品主要是供公司内部一级供应商使用。

问题:我们对内部的一级供应商有没有研发设计功能的支持?

mandywu 发表于 2023-8-9 11:10:33

从你的回答,第三方纠结的是你们的设计是不是对一级单位有支持。那可能就是下面两种情况
1.一级单位是给你们产品要求,你们自己进行产品设计和过程设计,满足产品功能进行生产,交付产品
2.一级单位给你们产品要求,你们产品设计,然后把设计图纸之类的返回一级公司,待一级单位认可后再下发给你们进行生产
如果第一种,我认为就是供应商关系,第二种就是支持功能

kamire 发表于 2023-8-9 10:07:29

哥们,你刚刚说了你们几个公司间证书是独立的,现在又说几个公司间有支持功能,坦白说我都被你搞晕了,如果从体系证书上看,你们是独立的公司,哪里又有公司内部的这种支持功能呢,都是业务功能才对。
在这里撸你们之间的关系,我们首先要理清的是公司和公司之间的关系,不是你想的那种流程之间的关系。审核员也是从这个角度看的,公司和公司之间的关系先理清楚了,再来看过程的关系。
你不能想当然的想搞独立就搞独立,想做内部支持就做内部支持。

举个例子来说,某公司把车间搞内部承包,产出都是搞内部销售,那么这个车间的生产是算支持还是算销售呢?从证书上看,这个车间没有独立认证,他就是认证主体的一部分,那么审核员肯定是把这个车间生产视为内部支持活动,无论车间销售的产品是卖给这个公司还是只是内部运输。

toto114114 发表于 2023-8-9 09:39:03

kamire 发表于 2023-8-9 09:23
那审核员为什么说你们属于集团认证?他的依据在哪里?

我们几个公司都是用同一个认证机构,有几个公司间有支持功能,比如采购、研发、设备管理啊,这些功能部门是共用的,所以相互之间有支持。这个支持功能是在日常管理,输入输出中都有体现的。
我也不知道他们的依据是什么?但个人理解,我们对内部一级客户来说,我们公司就是供应商。我们签订内部合同,下采购计划,出销售单,给他们提供的物料也是收费的。这样不是供应商是什么?如果非要体现支持功能,我们支持的点在那里,是支持了什么?
设计开发?——我们自己的研发部门,研发的也是适用于我们自己产品的设计,跟他们一点关系都没有
生产?——更不可能,根本没这个支持功能选项

我就现在就找不到审核员说的支持点在那里:(

CRiti 发表于 2023-8-8 13:16:34

COM\COP\SOP 等过程有支持嘛?

一米林夕 发表于 2023-8-8 13:24:40

图挂了?

kamire 发表于 2023-8-8 14:06:48

首先你没有图片
其次,你们集团内的一级供应商是你们的客户,你们客户买你们的产品,如果这个产品是你们设计的,那么你们肯定有产品设计职能。
这是你们的客户,不是什么支持功能。

toto114114 发表于 2023-8-8 16:18:22

kamire 发表于 2023-8-8 14:06
首先你没有图片
其次,你们集团内的一级供应商是你们的客户,你们客户买你们的产品,如果这个产品是你们设 ...

图片放不上来
一级供应商也是属于我们集团的公司,我们是二级,两个公司都是集团内的。只是供货的级别不一样,我们是二级供应商,产品提供给我们内部的一级供应商。

jackeyhfl 发表于 2023-8-8 19:33:17

{:1_180:}

kamire 发表于 2023-8-8 21:02:41

toto114114 发表于 2023-8-8 16:18
图片放不上来
一级供应商也是属于我们集团的公司,我们是二级,两个公司都是集团内的。只是供货的级别不 ...

我已经回答得很清楚了,你们是内部一级供应商的次级供应商,是供应商和客户的关系。

回忆像阵风 发表于 2023-8-8 21:44:03

{:1_180:}

tiaxuan 发表于 2023-8-9 07:48:56

图在哪?

forevershang 发表于 2023-8-9 07:49:30

内部客户也是客户,看客户怎么要求了。何况你们还独立运算。
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